Notes from LSE Webinar regarding Havieron funding and new Board appointments - 12 Sept 2022
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:42 pm
Notes from LSE Webinar regarding Havieron funding and new Board appointments - 12 Sept 2022
Interview:
https://youtu.be/nMSSrZWfmks
RNS re. funding:
https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/g ... ry/xegzdjw
RNS re. appointments:
https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/g ... ry/xpn9qjr
RNS re. options:
https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/g ... ry/wvj1kvw
Earlier Proactive Interview:
https://youtu.be/gzqjOdy2Fl8
Created from a messy YouTube transcript export
* Hello and welcome to a very special London southeast live event with Greatland Gold managing director Shaun Day, we've held a couple of Greatland Gold live events already this year and they've been really hugely successful with over 700 registrations for a most recent town hall event in July I’m Donald Leggett head of investor relations at London south east.
My job today is to welcome Shaun and put your questions to him really acting as a conduit on your behalf but before we do so let me say how sad were to learn of the passing of her majesty the queen on behalf of everyone at London southeast, I’d like to pass our condolences on to her family the Queen as we all know was an exceptional individual who lived a truly exceptional life and she touched the lives of millions of people here in Britain Australia and across the commonwealth and indeed across the world and were very sorry to hear of her passing. Shaun, might you want to say a few words at this point?
- yeah, thanks Donald, I think you said it well an exceptional life of service and I think respected throughout the world not just there in the UK but throughout the world and it's been an incredible event to observe from here but yeah our condolences to the royal family for the passing of what has been just an amazing reign.
* Thank you Shaun, Greatland Gold really don't need much of an introduction from me but nevertheless very briefly let me let me encapsulate what's happened in a brief 25 seconds for you in 2018 Greatland discovered what is rapidly becoming one of the most exciting tier 1 Gold copper finds worldwide in the Paterson region of Western Australia, they subsequently partnered with Australia's major Gold producer Newcrest and under the JV agreement Newcrest had an option to buy further five percent stake for 60 million dollars which they didn't take up as managing director Shaun was under pressure to quickly come up with the Greatland Gold share of development costs and to repay the 50 million loan from Newcrest and this is what we're going to talk to him about today he quickly put together a package of debt and equity funding to fully fund Greatland 30% so they Havieron to completion. I suspect one of the moments of AIM history and we’re here living it at the moment would you would you like to put that put that what I’ve encapsulated, would you like to put your announcements in context for us please Shaun?
- yeah look thanks for that introduction Donald I don't have any slides to speak tonight and yeah I think we all enjoy the Q&A so let me get to that reasonably rapidly but maybe just to go through in sequence today's announcement so I think firstly we have the board we have three directors joining in due course initially Jimmy Wilson
- for those that don't know Jimmy was head of iron ore at BHP had a long and distinguished career at BHP has a formidable pedigree in mining operations effectively at 2IC I understand of BHP so to him to join the board and in an executive role can really help us around the time of receiving the feasibility study but continue to build our team, continue to have his insights on the development of Havieron but also as we look at other assets the exploration but also looking at other inorganic opportunities to have someone of his calibre to be working on that with us I think is a tremendous opportunity
- then in the deputy chair role commencing on or before the first of January we have Elizabeth Gaines, again look huge profile and presence, I think globally certainly in Australia seen as one of the top executives not just in mining but you know a top executive just finishing up as the MD and CEO of Fortescue, 50 billion dollar top 10 ASX listed company, just a huge amount of development and growth under Elizabeth’s stewardess stewardship… she's you know has this background in private equity background as a CFO incredible strategic thought and operational experience again so she brings her own incredible experience and expertise to the table
- and then also joining from the first of from the first of January if not before is Mark Barnaba, Mark is deputy chairman of Fortescue again 50 billion dollar enterprise in addition he was previously head of global investment banking resources for Macquarie bank and it presently sits on the reserve bank of Australia, your Bank of England… so again his pedigree his commercial insights his strategic insights as well are going to be invaluable
- and all of them bring you know tremendous skills, different skills but also overlapping and really complete that board in I think one of the best boards literally in Australia so and the thought process here is if we surround ourselves with A grade talent we increase the probability of great outcomes
- I think the second piece I’ll speak to just now is the debt, so a 220 aussie million commitment letter with three you know main street tier one banks HSBC, ASZ and INZ all you know very prominent names in resource funding, so with those coming in seven year facility, very competitive interest rate three and a half percent plus benchmark
- just to put that in context we will when first drawn will repay the Newcrest debt which is eight percent plus benchmark so you can see straight away a massive arbitrage of saving there but the real key here is it's 220 million dollars
- so that provides a huge step towards fully funding Havieron and it gives us a tremendous amount of flexibility over a seven year duration debt piece with repayments not until after project completion plus 12 months after that so it's an extraordinary high quality and flexible debt piece at good pricing with your our preferred partners
- and well I’d really just like to again acknowledge that HSBC, ASZ and INZ are joining, we selected them from a process and we feel very strongly about these being enduring long-lasting banking relationships
- and there's a lot to unpack because there's a there's a third element today's announcement as well which is bringing on a strategic equity investor in Wyloo, look we couldn't have a better partner than than Wyloo we're just delighted to have them on board and what they bring with an initial I mean 9.6% stake they've come in basically at market price at a very small premiumum to the last five days but at the same price as that last placement ordinarily you would see placements done at a discount
- so for us to be able to bring them in at this pricing just talks to the conviction they have around the asset and the team and we're really thankful for them being prepared to come in at that pricing and then again they've also… you've got two tranches so our first 60 million dollar aussie investment and then another 60 million but it's 35 million pounds of options which is at a 22% premium
- at around 10 pence that would give them a total investment of around 120 million aussie, so a really big strategic stake initially 9.6% stake that can rise to about as much as 14 and a half percent stake but they become this strategic shareholder and really someone who allows us to work overtime to fully unlock the value of Havieron
- so you know this trifecta of having you know this tremendous augmentation of our board recognizing the great job that the existing directors have done coupled with the debt piece and I understand the magic of leverage when delivering shareholder returns and then that third piece being Wyloo, absolute investor of choice as a strategic partner so really delighted Donald and delighted for our shareholders to deliver this outcome today.
* Okay so thank you for that Shaun, Bamps said on the boards this morning that he's never come across an AIM listed business with the capacity to raise almost 200 million of funding before the full feasibility study like this so you've already summarised the debt and equity funding package which was what I was going to ask you for but you've done it and it gives us the background to have you managed to pull it all together so quickly, tell us the drama because this has been done in no time at all?
- in effect I think you know what I’ve talked about you know on you know on these kind of webinars with yourself the lsa Donald but also I think across a range of platforms is I’ve talked about you know people should have confidence that we're preparing and you know it's in some ways it's kind of you to say this has all been put together in no time but the truth is this has been a tremendous journey and really now shareholders are seeing the culmination of that journey so in terms of the elements look I’ve talked about a transition period and transition issues that had to be overcome around the pre-feasibility study around the option and achieving an outcome with that option and being fully funded
- and I talked about trying to give myself around 18 months to solve that and I feel today we've switched from defence to offense and so if I look at those three parts yeah I think I first you know went to a head-hunter when Alex asked me look would you go out, Alex Borreli our present chair and said look at some stage I will be looking at stepping down from that chair role, would you please go out and consider who you'd like to bring in and I sat down with a head hunter and you know number one on my list was Mark Barnaba
- I’d worked with Mark Barnaba before on transactions and you know just had a huge amount of respect for the way he goes about and about transactions and the way he carries himself and I think we always got on well through that process so I thought I’d start at the top of my list and I reached out to Mark and really that's been virtually a 12-month process but with that we've also been able to kind of bring in Elizabeth and Jimmy and thought about what skill sets do we want on this board to really….
* Did Mark Barnaba recommend Elizabeth as a suitable person?
- yeah absolutely look I knew Elizabeth a little bit but you know Mark knows her well, very well you know that they they've shared a lot of the Fortescue or journey together so you know being able to kind of have Mark as to kind of bring to harness that group together again with Jimmy we sat down and wanted to think about who would be just an audacious outcome to bring in with an operational background and you know again bringing in Jimmy Wilson who you know played such a prevalent role in the world's largest mining company at BHP I think is extraordinary, particularly for him to be you know coming in a part-time executive role
- I think that's an extraordinary and again I think that is a demonstration of the commitment that team has to have to Havieron and Greatland
- and then you know we talked about the debt piece you know I think again I’ve been pretty open with shareholders that we started that at the beginning of this company year so again that has been an eight nine month process but we needed to know what percentage of the asset we own to fund it, although we I think when we thought about this we always said well let's fund the 30% it will be always easy to go back to the bank and say no we want to borrow a little bit more
- we had a mechanism in there that could adjust either way, as it happens we didn't need that mechanism we got the best possible outcome from that option, we keep the full 30 so you know that's been a kind of a nine month journey and I think I started talking to Wyloo gosh….
* How many banks were prepared to offer you term sheets, I mean did you actually do a beauty contest of the world's banks get your pick of the banks?
- yeah we started with over a dozen banks and we slowly went through and I think I mentioned around our selection of ANZ ING and HSBC, it really was about the banks that we felt from a relationship point of view and from a long-term commitment without going into each of the banks you know it too deeply I think ANZ has been part of every funding I’ve done since about 2004. so my relationship with them is bordering on 20 years a number of those banks were well and still are kind of northern star funding banks so again yeah you know it's continuity of those relationships and preservation of those relationships and then bring those relationships across for long-term creation of values and partnerships here at Greatland
- so you know again it was about spending nine months of preparation to be able to move quickly when the opportunity arose
- and then with Wyloo look I think success breeds success, we had that really good experience of going out to the market for equity in august, we had Tribeca come in as a cornerstone shareholder
- I was then able to articulate to Wyloo around the debt piece coming to its conclusion around the directors we are bringing in and the quality of those directors and this has been synchronizing you know these three elements has been a little bit like being the conductor of a symphony
- it's been trying to bring those pieces together and collectively helping each part make the other part more likely or better to happen and I think that's what we've achieved with today's announcement
* Okay it might be worth expanding on the fact that you actually needed that 60 million aussie dollars of equity, that you needed the equity stake in order to be able to fully draw down on the larger 220 aussie dollar debt facility, do you want to unwrap that for us?
- yeah we'll look at again this is something shareholders you know should know I’ve been warming them to you know really again for the last 12 months
- you know no project is banked a hundred percent debt there's always some equity needs to sit aside and everyone who's you know taken a mortgage out on a home or probably bought a car knows that the banks sit there and don't want to lend 100% of that asset value
- they want some equity sitting next to them so and this this level of financing has exactly the same principles so and what this allowed us to do is with this final piece of equity is to be fully funded and not… you know we are fully funded clearly on the PFS but also create a funding environment where we are confident that when the feasibility study releases that we have the head room to accommodate that as well
- now time will tell but you know we really feel we're in a very strong position vis-a-vis that USD 98 million dollars of capex on the feasibility… on the pre-feasibility study to feel confident that we have the kind of funding platform across debt and equity to be fully funded across a range of scenarios.
* Okay Chris K asks will you be paying the USD 50 million dollars Newcrest loan back as soon as you get the funds, what's the timing on that?
- so yes is the answer to that Chris, so as one of the first elements of the drawdown would be to repay that that USD 50 million dollar Newcrest loan facility
- as I said there's this lovely arbitrage where that's costing us eight percent this is costing us three and a half percent so you know we kind of love the cost saving around that, there's no hurry to do that we will have to go through the drawdown mechanism a documenting you know a debt facility is you know is a month or two work
- we have the commitment letter we need to complete that process but you know that will be and is envisaged to be you know under the uses of funds, that is exactly one of the first steps that we'll be taking.
* So we can expect that to be a couple of months to see?
- yeah I think that's a good rule of thumb.
* Okay now Wyloo, you mentioned they’re not so well known across here in the UK, clearly very well known in Australia, Nick T asks can you please let us know what you know about billionaire Andrew Forrest apart from the fact that he's a billionaire clearly and his private company Wyloo Metals and I would say my part of it would be why Wyloo?
- well just briefly you know I don't purport to you know have any particularly deep knowledge of Andrew but you know Wyloo I understand is the family station and so that's the genesis of that name as I understand it but the so yeah… it's lovely to have that that kind of tradition.
* Why them though why Wyloo what do they bring that others wouldn't have?
- well I think while Wyloo metals has just this tremendous reputation around being a patient you know deep funding support and I think what they try to do as I understand it is back the next generation of high quality developments and I think that's exactly what Havieron is
- so we feel it's just a tailor-made partnership, it gives us this strategic investor which helps us gives us time to unlock that full value in Havieron and I think in terms of Wyloo we've got this lovely connectivity not just in terms of my engagement with Wyloo but also the connectivity through Mark and Elizabeth coming from Fortescue which overlaps with Andrew himself
- so it's this this lovely confluence of factors that gives us a strong basis of relationship but just a funder and a partner of choice and I and I think that the record of Wyloo demonstrates their you know their willingness to commit to generate value over time
- I also know Luca quite well the head of Wyloo, I've worked with him previously on transactions so again it's these multi-factorial features of relationship that really bring together finding the right fit as your strategic partner.
* But they most interestingly didn't just mention Havieron they mentioned your other projects in the Paterson, so do they have a genuine interest in exploring and developing those with you?
- yeah look again you know one of the lovely things about this funding package is having enough funds to also pursue the exploration strategy
- so I love to orientate people around our three the three pillars of our strategy, deliver and expand at Havieron, continue to invest in the drill bit and unlock exploration value in the portfolio and position ourselves for inorganic growth
- so in terms of that second feature being the… well let's start so Havieron I think without saying is the cornerstone asset and something that yeah is clearly an asset that's incredibly attractive as the next you know tier of world-class assets in Australia.
* Okay other people about other people…
- sorry about them, just gonna say but while we specifically mentioned and a big feature of our discussions with them has been the geology and unlocking the geology around Havieron across that Paterson footprint we also love Ernest Giles as well remember but you know I think if we can have a discovery there it doesn't need to be the size of Havieron, if it is that's out of the out of the ballpark but even a half Havieron, a quarter Havieron still creates so much value next to this infrastructure and I think this helps us accelerate that.
* Okay let me just quickly ask you about some of the shenanigans that are bringing on which you've taken to the us to this point do you have any thoughts as to why Sandeep and Newcrest didn't opt to pay for the five percent stake, why didn't why didn't they buy the five percent stake which you clearly think is worth far more than 60 million dollars?
- yeah look that's a better question for Newcrest….
* You must have some kind of take on it though I mean around that around your board table you must have discussed this?
- yeah well look I think the narrative for me is this was the best outcome for Greatland shareholders you know it increased our fundamental value from a medium to long term by around 20%, that's extraordinary we love the asset, you know why Newcrest may have thought you know there was an opportunity to you know not to excise the option at that time is a bit of a curveball but look as Napoleon said when yeah never interrupt someone when they're making a mistake so we were delighted to hold on to the to a full 30% of Havieron.
* Okay you get today's Gold star for that one that was brilliant… I let there's a question is flooding in from all over to what extent does the debt and equity package de-risked Greatland secured the future I mean this is pretty fundamental I think?
- well and look you know what I haven't mentioned but that should have is the Wyloo investment is subject to shareholder approval but that is incredibly important because the equity unlocks the debt and that's why this is a full de-risking event because it gives us both the debt and the equity to feel we're fully funded
- we know we're fully funded on the PFS there's still some moving parts in that feasibility study but we're actually you know we have a really important liquidity buffer there and that liquidity buffer you know services a number of aims you know it services any upgrade in the cost to put Havieron into development and remember we want there to be an upgrade
- it's going from 2 million to 3 million tons per annum that's what the PFS tells you is the intent and we want that to be the outcome
- two I talked about ongoing exploration
- and three we want insulation from any inflationary pressures so we've intentionally make no apologies for going out and we haven't just funded to the dollar we need
- we've actually put in an appropriate liquidity buffer and right through the life of Havieron we want to be not the junior partner saying let's slow down expenditure we want to be accelerating it
- we want to be saying look how do we… can we bring in more drill rigs can we unlock more value because it's Greatland shareholders that are more leveraged to the success of Havieron than you get by sitting in the broader Newcrest portfolio as a shareholder
- so from our point of view we are will do everything we can to accelerate the development of Havieron and that means having the funding to keep up with Newcrest.
* So Nick Taylor asks it's a simple question easily answer briefly where and when does that a shareholder vote take place?
- the UK shareholder meetings are around about three weeks, I think 14 days of notice so I’d be saying kind of early October but let us get out that notice and meeting we're kind of finished this job on onto the notice of meeting tomorrow
* Okay work that's work in progress fair point no you've done a heck of a lot in what I think seems to be a fairly short time, Aziz K asks the RNS states that feasibility study targets and expansion to around three million MTPA during the December 2022 quarter, please expand on this statement, so your next feasibility study the next phase tell us…?
- yeah so look this comes back to that original PFS said it was centred around a two million ton per annum production profile
- the PFS went on to say that it would recommended a three million tonne per annum so 50% bigger production profile be taken to the feasibility study, that remains the intent so again you know a 50% expansion we should be celebrating and that's our expectation
- and Donald if I digress for a moment about you know this happened again it's all about saying you know people should have confidence that we plan for this we plan that we knew that we'd need debt we knew that we need equity, we knew that we needed the best team we could find and although it's all kind of come together I’ve been trying to work up all these multiple streams but needed to understand our position in the joint venture to finally take these things through to execution
- and you know that what was afforded to me on the I think it was the 21st of August when we got that outcome with the option so we are ready to go because we did a huge amount of preparation for this.
* At that time, I thought you were incredibly confident incredibly happy that you've once again had about 30% share stake in Havieron and I was thinking but doesn't this come with an enormous headache of having to repay that loan very quickly, I mean if you could tell us how soon that loan was due to be repaid and it put you, I thought it put you under enormous pressure but you knew things that we didn't?
- well and I had guided that that people should have confidence that we had had had you know had prepared for these….
* Managing directors have to see that though but we don't necessarily believe them all the time
- no you should have confidence Donald that but thank you.
* okay to less happy news, dilution share dilution, now not everyone is happy that that people have been granted options at 45% that's above the placement 45% above the placement price of 8.2 pence, I personally bought my shares at an average around 20p so if you do the maths I do hope that I do hope they drive the share price well above 12 pence, what do you say to that?
- look let me answer this in two parts look you know Greatland you know had about four billion shares on issue and when I joined I think we had about four million dollars in the bank and an outstanding funding horizon which was unknown and unfunded
- the so that we have issued some equity over the a series of equity raisings and then bought in some incentive plans but really if you contrast the position that we're in today I think from an Australian dollar we've raised around 400 million dollars in about the last three weeks
- now that is a sea change a transformational event in terms of being able to articulate that we're now funded and we've done it for less than 20% dilution
- so I think when you compare from where we started, this outcome is incredibly good value for money if I talk to the to the equity plan for the incoming directors, look again I think you know if you look at it in terms of the percentage that they're participating in the company it's I don't think it's unreasonable but more importantly more importantly these people do not participate in the value creation today, they don't participate until we've increased the value of about 56 or 46 percent
- well that is a big number and I appreciate that people have come in at different levels over the journey but fundamentally we have to deal with the share price that that that it is today
- and for them not you know it has to go up 46% for them to break even, they don't make a penny on that they then get a lick of the ice cream so to speak for value beyond that
- now I’m just delighted to have that level of alignment because that is alignment focused on one relentless objective which is to create shareholder value to increase the share price and I’m a shareholder as well both through investing and through the staff participation plan and what do I think will increase the value of my stock
- A grade talent, A grade talents make the most of the opportunities that we have so look I think to get people of this calibre who frankly I don't think would have joined the board had we not said we are willing to do something a bit different we want to incentivise you
- now I know them and that opened the door but also I wanted to say look the proposition I’m putting to you is actually I don't want you to sit there on my board and you know as important as all those roles are in terms of you know reviewing disclosures and that I actually want you to be incentivised to be creating value
- I want you to be using your rolodexes to help us access capital and opportunities and already you know this Wyloo investment at least in part is a reflection of that board
- so I think already that that has been a tremendously good investment for Greatland
* It's already been good value you think?
- very much so and it might be worth paying we did not pay any fees on the Wyloo investment we didn't pay any fees on the bank debt which we self-arranged, that in itself you know has saved the company you know a huge amount that stays in our treasury
* It's very clever and are do you have the skills and clearly you have the skills to have done that
- yeah look it's part of my background you know I look at northern star you know and previous roles at sakari and straits you know I've been having you know a banking background a strategy background and an M&A background and those things have really helped me and we've built a tremendous team because none of these things are done in isolation
- having mining engineers that can go in and explain the proposition, having geologists who can go out there and describe the ore body whether that be to the market to another geologist or to a potential investor
- having a CFO and a finance team that can execute these having a health and safety manager who is absolutely top draw and has created us systems and environment where we can bring home our people safe each day
- it's all of these pieces in the puzzle that make for a good team and that I think people heard me say at the end of calendar year 2021
- my greatest achievement was building that team and that's what's given us the platform to be successful at driving these outcomes in 2022.
* Okay another dilution question from Craig M, he says g'day Shaun so I suspect he's from your part of the world thanks for all the team's hard work getting to this stage my question is do you see any more dilution for shareholders before we reach production at Havieron?
- well that's the beauty of this you know I’ve got to be a little bit measured about saying we're fully funded because until we've all got a copy of the feasibility study, I have to be a little bit cautious in that language but I do think we have a tremendous liquidity buffer that gives me confidence thinking that there's a pathway to that
- but on the basis we're fully funded and we're ballpark kind of 18 months away from first production, this is what this combination of debt and equity is designed to do is to say no
- that is sufficient you know, no more dilution this is sufficient funding to take us through to production and that is our intent.
* Okay one for me here might you expect the share price to perform better now this now that this massive uncertainty this this overhang has been removed?
- well absolutely and again you know to take it back to a narrative I’ve been kind of consistent with over the last 18 months it's all been joining and saying gosh yeah I’ve joined and there are some transitional issues that need to be you know addressed you know from that PFS through to the option through the uncertainty of what we what percentage of the asset we own not being funded all of these issues had to be addressed to attract high calibre institutional investments and investors
- and that's what we've really done I think it's been a very systematic process it's been about hard work about you know doing the work to be able to take it to arbitration and getting an outcome that that we felt was fair
- it was about having the preparation with the banks it was about being able to present ourselves to potential institutional investors in a really polished manner and I think by doing all of that we've set ourselves up for success so I think we now have a very stable platform and when you remove risk because investors you know at least in theory think about investment in terms of risk and return so the lower your risk you know the more confident people should have in achieving the return which should drive up our share price on a given expectation of cash flow.
* Okay I’m gonna slightly take you to a different place and to look ahead at your other exploration projects two people Chris W and Eddie D ask the same question, when are we expecting news for the drill campaign on our other licenses?
- so look at the drill right now is on the up in the Paterson on the scallywag and juri
- look assay times certainly recently have been coming down hopefully that trend continues because I think for at least 18 months in Australia it's been incredibly long queues but if it yes I’d like to see that what we did just to remind people as we ran the RC rig that was really doing the pre-collars through that Permian layer
- now we've got the diamond rig up there and we’re punching through to get core so there's a cycle time of cutting and assaying but you know we tend to try to get those that information out as soon as it comes to hand
- I don't have a formal time frame on that but rigs are spinning as we speak so that cycle time is about to kick in again okay
- and so I’ll just add you know we have one rig spinning this calendar year I’d like to think next year you know perhaps we have two rigs spinning just given the funding proposition and three if we can get on to Ernst Giles, so I think that all increases the cycle time for unlocking that option value which again is one of the reasons why I think taking that little bit of extra equity and funding is a terrific outcome for us
* So two and possibly three drill rigs next year?
- well look that's the ambition it's all it's all kind of premised on access issues really that you do need to get not just owning the tenements but you do need to clear areas with the traditional owners before you can clear drill pads
- so there's a process that we work through and sometimes the timing and you've got to kind of work up the you know the moment of that the balance and then you it's easier to maintain so what it now positions us ourselves is to ramp that up
- we're really respectful we love we enjoy and really embrace that relationship and in fact you know the CEO of jay yak you know the Martu partner there sent me a really you know congratulatory text today about the announcement, so that relationship is wonderful but it's based on mutual respect which means you know we'd love to get on there and drill but we also recognize that that you know they're the traditional owners and indeed the owners of that land up there and so yes that's our aspiration, but we do have to respect how we ramp that up and do it in partnership.
* Okay you're working with your stakeholders that makes a lot of sense, now Chris D asks will there be an updated road map in terms of a road map too it means one of these lovely clear presentations that you were saying were pivotal to you getting your getting your core funding away?
- yeah I think if you're talking about a PowerPoint yes updated PowerPoint would be a very boring way of putting it but yeah roadmap was much more eloquent but the that look we I literally yeah was finalizing you know the some of these issues over the weekend so at some point you know we haven't cracked into the to you know putting this into a PowerPoint presentation style but we will be doing that
- we'd like to have that ready for next week so yes is the answer and I think you know we've got some really interesting slides we can bring in but that's worth doing well so we'll we're I know the guys are already working on that as we speak in the background, there are some drafts zipping around.
* Okay now we've really got a rush of a rush of questions coming in so literally hot off the presses I’m gonna start just asking you randomly John G asks when we start production at Havieron and have cash coming in will you start buying shares back at some point to get the share number down?
- yeah look I think yeah that's a an interesting I’m a you know I’m a dividend kind of guy perhaps a shared buyback achieves a similar outcome, so it's certainly something that….
* Do we have a preference between the two?
- well as I said I’m a dividend kind of guy but that does come from being in Australia where there is a franking credit tax benefit, you basically get the company passes on the tax that's paid to shareholders
- I don't think you have an imputation franking system in the UK so perhaps a buyback might be more sensible in that jurisdiction but historically as I said in Australia I’ve been a dividend kind of guy but the concept of returning value to shareholders I think is a very sensible one
- and equity has a cost just like paying interest on a loan so I think that discipline of paying either a dividend or using some funds to buy back shares is a really important dividend… to have discipline to have in a cash flow generating business.
* Okay Simon M asks any news in our Tasmanian licenses, so I've been all the way around Australia we're now going to pop across to Tasmania…
- yeah look I look again I think I’ve been kind of open with them where we've kind of been talking with some people around you know perhaps coming up with a mechanism where someone else takes over those assets but we'd like to keep an interest
- look we continue to have some of those dialogues and you know if we can find the right partner and you know we think we have some good dialogue there we'd probably like to put them in someone else's hands
- really good quality assets but probably not of the size and scale that can compete for exploration dollars compared to some of the other opportunities in the project in the portfolio particularly up in the Paterson.
* Okay so Dip S asks have you been any strong progress in regard to inorganic or organic growth opportunities or perhaps partnerships or divestment opportunities with the existing portfolio?
- yeah look we do we have we do we you know we look at a number of these opportunities
- we're incredibly financially disciplined we have this fantastic privilege of having something the quality of Havieron in the portfolio but yeah look we are active in that area but again yeah I yeah again I try to be consistent in my narrative I’ve always talked about getting through these transitional issues
- it was actually quite hard for us to merge with another company and then put the burden of funding onto that other asset
- we really had to get our own house fully funded in order for us to be in a position to work effectively with other similar size or indeed smaller entities so I think again now that we've done that it lets us take some of the good ideas we've got some of the relationships we've built and look to see if we can execute them
- just like we've executed with the directors coming in with the banks and with Wyloo now we have an opportunity to look at that aspect of the relationships with bill.
* Now that I’m scanning through these different questions I’m saying that people are asking was there a is it a connection between Wyloo and the various people who are coming in and I’ve heard you say yes but it's almost worth reiterating the fact that there is a you know a broad connection between all these folks who are not just working in the mining industry but have been working with each other which is of great interest to shareholders?
- well there's not not a connection so yeah I think again it's a little bit what I talked about being you know trying to bring all the notes of the symphony in together I think each was a virtuous feedback loop in terms of bringing in the other
- perhaps they're different threads that I picked up and you know we've weaved them together but as I say they're not not connected.
* Okay not connected okay Phillip C asks an interesting one he's broadly talking about a potential ASX listing and firstly many thanks for all your efforts on behalf of shareholders impressive hard work that's good you're getting a double tick on your report card here please could you explain more about the potential ASX listing how does this work does it cause further dilution does it raise funds how does it affect the share movement daily, in other words what are the benefits do it do a cost-benefit analysis on it for us?
- yeah well you know firstly thank you for the introduction that question really appreciated and on behalf of the whole team here the in terms of the ASX look I think that's an important augmentation to our listing platform
- you've seen with Tribeca coming in you've seen with Wyloo what I think we've done is matured the platform where institutional investors are really interested in Greatland which was not the case you know two years ago and again I think when I started I talked about that engagement with institutional investors and trying to keep the best of both worlds you know we want to maintain this fantastic interactive retail base we want to continue to or grow that and mature it and the best of both worlds is then bringing in that that institutional buying as well and of course acting together that's the best possible outcome you know
- the more demand the better the more liquidity the better and so when I think about the ASX look we've now had a cornerstone with Tribeca coming from Australia today we've got the Wyloo coming in as a strategic holder so that that Australian connectivity is important
- now I think I’ve talked before about having that ASX listing increases the man the number of funds that have a mandate to be able to invest in Greatland even having an intention to invest within 12 months brought us into some more of those mandates I think that's really useful in terms of where does the shares trade well they'll still trade in London
- what you typically see even with a cross listed is the shares trade on the deeper market and the more liquid market which of the course is London and that's good and we should celebrate that but I think if we can bring some buyers in just because they're aussie invested doesn't mean they still can't execute their order in London
- and you've seen I think I used an example previously Kirkland lake where it was just a compliance listing in Australia but allowed mandate locked funds in Australia to buy Kirkland Lake in this case on the TSX…
* So you know I’ve got a very firm idea… eye on institutional investors?
- correct and that and that it increases our appeal and you know it increases our access to funding which I think is important.
* Great okay very good answer Kieran D asks a good question what if any future hurdles do you see Greatland having to overcome in the next two years?
- I’ll look at you know no progress is linear so yeah we'll continue to have challenges
- I do feel in terms of transitional issues you know that's the end of that part of my narrative which we should celebrate
- I certainly am the but I think now as we move forward but we've got the feasibility study we've got we want to get into production we want to be successful at that and then we want to get into free cash flow generation I think when we're at free cash flow generation that is a huge step in the in the growth of a company and when I think about value creation at Greatland I think of it particularly in a three-year journey
- I think about the next 18 months getting to the start of production and the generation of free cash flow I think about 18 months after that and then being ramped up to three four hundred thousand ounces a year 100% basis at Havieron I think that's another huge de-risking event and demonstrating the potential of Havieron and I’d like to think in that same three-year horizon we have a pre-feasibility study on that eastern breccia bulk mining proposition
- and I think if we can do that we've really unlocked a lot of value within the platform so I’d like to think the issues that we have although will no doubt have complexities and setbacks and nothing is linear I think they're good problems they're the problems about unlocking value into generating free cash flow and then demonstrating exactly how big that free cash flow can be.
* Okay we have a question from paddy gal who says hi Shaun Sprott have issued a new note today where they say the new team opens the door to an exciting new growth phase, I certainly do, M&A as the buyer not the seller… okay is M&A with you as the buyer not the seller something you'd be actively pursuing over the coming months?
- thanks Paddy and yeah that was another very good piece by sprout that research so the yeah look I think again I talk about the benefit of being fully funded and having a strategic holder
- it allows us to maybe broaden our horizons as well and when I say inorganic growth I’m talking about kind of potential M&A opportunities
- it's always been one of our pillars but again I think having stabilised the platform or indeed having to really made it a very strong platform I think it now gives us the platform to expand upon be with M&A or other similar type activity
- so look we're excited about that it, you know there's lots of avenues we can pursue and again having a strategic holder with substantial access to funding you know you asked about why Donald they are a preferred strategic holder
- you know they're an incredibly well-funded organization that wants to see growth now having that as your ally on that journey is incredibly advantageous particularly when combined with A grade talent in the organization and on the board.
* This is a I’m afraid slightly random question it's just that I’ve got a… I looked at benchmark and you talk about Newcrest were charging you eight percent over benchmark you're taking that down to three and a half percent over benchmark, we don't know what aussie benchmark is though so I just wanted to ask you that?
- yeah a lot of people have probably heard of libor in Australia, in Australia it's the BBSR or the bank bill swap rate so it's the same concept but just the benchmark in AUD.
* What is it though at what level what rate?
- look at it it's probably notched up a little bit
- approximately I’m gonna say two percent.
* Okay so it's so essentially the cost of borrowing is five and a half percent?
- yeah yeah all in yeah all in.
* Anyway no I just I just thought on behalf of the shareholders it's exactly that kind of level of detail that they want to they want to know, okay fantastic I’m just gonna go grab my screen again..
- no and random questions are good they're good It's a good fun format.
* Oh good okay I’m afraid the last half has been a little bit random but that's life it's not as those are not good questions but they're less coherent I personally love coherence but random is random is interesting and anyway at the end of the day you want to hear what the shareholders think and it's the second Wyloo option it's warrants it's a it's a different form of equity, why warrants and do you think that do you think people ever actually use a that they will actually take you up on those warrants and Tony S is asking you about to say you know he he's… a similar question right why warrants?
- look so it you know it was all part of a bit of a discussion about the basis that they were comfortable to invest in and the basis that Greatland you know was encouraging the while to invested
- look we so like all negotiations it you know it was a healthy discussion and we had various different structures that that were discussed
- I think the balance for me is the 60 million dollars came in… I look at an exceptional pricing to come in you know at all you know a fraction above the share price it is extraordinary
- yeah I can't think of another example where someone's coming in a placement without a discount so I think that is exceptional
- so we are grateful yeah and proud that we got Wyloo to come in on that basis yeah but also you know we really felt that they were coming in at a point where we're doing this wonderful appointments on the board we were solving the debt puzzle I felt it was a really good time for a new investor to come in, I think at a great point in the cycle and you know the great thing about options or warrants is you know fundamentally it's an agreement to come in at a higher share price so I saw that as almost creating a premium entry point for us shareholders
- if they don't come in it's no dilution, if they do come in at that higher price well we've got a really significant premium on the existing share price and it's a better way for someone to come in than them to have bought in at the share price that it was you know yesterday.
* So yeah Tony S asks second… second question from Tony do you need them to activate the warrants to be fully funded?
- no and look that is the sizing of the warrant tranches you know that the $60m was the number we wanted and needed to be able to come and say to shareholders we have conviction that that that this is fully funded
- we achieved that we specifically worked with them to agree that number and again you know great reflection of the relationship, great reflection of the quality of Wyloo that they worked with us to deliver that number.
* Okay Patrick Mitchell says when's your next visit to London when you're gonna come and meet shareholders in London again?
- booking flights as we speak
- would have liked to have pre-positioned myself in London for this announcement as I did with the last one but literally the weekend was essential to concluding all of this and really appreciative to a number of the counterparties that also were prepared to work through the weekend to help us solve all this so thank you to each of them
- I so look I think maybe not next week but I’m hoping to get up there for a few day for the following week and I’d have to look at what that date is but that that is the plan and if so Donald we might talk to you about organizing a shareholder town hall if we think that's something that people would have, we would have traction with people.
* We would be very delighted and I suspect the answer is an overwhelming yes.
- I the… enjoy the interaction.
* They enjoy the interaction with you it's mutual.
- yeah excellent.
* Well I’ve never seen happier shareholders they were.. they love meeting you.
- well this will be good we'll have a little bit more to discuss which is always good fun.
* Certainly true Philip J says when do you think that Newcrest will announce that they're actually going to mine Havieron?
- Phil well you know there's a sequence, the first step is the feasibility study and then typically you'd see that final investment decision on the back of that feasibility study
- the feasibility study is confirmed for the December quarter of this year.
* So can you give us any indication of when in the December quarter?
- I don't expect it to be early… just early in the quarter so let's rule out September (means October)
- I think everyone wants to avoid December so through process of elimination I feel November but that is not guidance that is my sense for it
- but yeah it's the December quarter is the official narrative.
* Okay now we've come we've come to five o'clock and we've had our hour but we still got some just a few questions is squeezed through, Trevor C asks have JP Morgan close the hated short I added the word hated and I have to confess have you have JP Morgan closed the short and somebody else asked about shorts and say is our shorting has that come to an end because we're fully funded now?
- Well firstly we didn't seek to issue any equity disorders through the placement which I think is important…
* You know sends the right message I’m sure.
- yeah secondly the look… as a head scratcher for me I thought the short would come off at the end of the option process, it didn't and but I you know I’m not privy to the way they think about that if they haven't I think they'll be very disappointed if their view was there was a long-term funding gap
- hopefully we've disproved that narrative but the great thing about shorts is once they're on they've got to be unwound
- so that is a huge amount of buying that has to come back into the market, so I hope they haven't taken off I hope I hope that benefit to us is yet to come but we'll say I think in the UK you've got three days to notify your short positions and when I last looked it was still on.
* It's that time, it's the witching hour we have got to the end of our hour and a bit beyond and we're out of questions can you believe that we're actually out of questions for you Shaun I think you've been absolutely tremendous. Thank you it was 11 o'clock when we started this I suspect it's midnight now so on behalf of all the shareholders who've at very short notice gathered themselves to come and ask you questions and hear what you had to say I’d like to say a huge thank you, I’d like to say a huge thank you to them and thank you to a London southeast for having got our act together between Friday Saturday Sunday and now to deliver this this event for you and on your behalf anyway, thank you so much and have a good evening you and have a good evening to all the shareholders, thank you so much.
Download link:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/p5smovul ... 2.pdf/file
Interview:
https://youtu.be/nMSSrZWfmks
RNS re. funding:
https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/g ... ry/xegzdjw
RNS re. appointments:
https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/g ... ry/xpn9qjr
RNS re. options:
https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/g ... ry/wvj1kvw
Earlier Proactive Interview:
https://youtu.be/gzqjOdy2Fl8
Created from a messy YouTube transcript export
* Hello and welcome to a very special London southeast live event with Greatland Gold managing director Shaun Day, we've held a couple of Greatland Gold live events already this year and they've been really hugely successful with over 700 registrations for a most recent town hall event in July I’m Donald Leggett head of investor relations at London south east.
My job today is to welcome Shaun and put your questions to him really acting as a conduit on your behalf but before we do so let me say how sad were to learn of the passing of her majesty the queen on behalf of everyone at London southeast, I’d like to pass our condolences on to her family the Queen as we all know was an exceptional individual who lived a truly exceptional life and she touched the lives of millions of people here in Britain Australia and across the commonwealth and indeed across the world and were very sorry to hear of her passing. Shaun, might you want to say a few words at this point?
- yeah, thanks Donald, I think you said it well an exceptional life of service and I think respected throughout the world not just there in the UK but throughout the world and it's been an incredible event to observe from here but yeah our condolences to the royal family for the passing of what has been just an amazing reign.
* Thank you Shaun, Greatland Gold really don't need much of an introduction from me but nevertheless very briefly let me let me encapsulate what's happened in a brief 25 seconds for you in 2018 Greatland discovered what is rapidly becoming one of the most exciting tier 1 Gold copper finds worldwide in the Paterson region of Western Australia, they subsequently partnered with Australia's major Gold producer Newcrest and under the JV agreement Newcrest had an option to buy further five percent stake for 60 million dollars which they didn't take up as managing director Shaun was under pressure to quickly come up with the Greatland Gold share of development costs and to repay the 50 million loan from Newcrest and this is what we're going to talk to him about today he quickly put together a package of debt and equity funding to fully fund Greatland 30% so they Havieron to completion. I suspect one of the moments of AIM history and we’re here living it at the moment would you would you like to put that put that what I’ve encapsulated, would you like to put your announcements in context for us please Shaun?
- yeah look thanks for that introduction Donald I don't have any slides to speak tonight and yeah I think we all enjoy the Q&A so let me get to that reasonably rapidly but maybe just to go through in sequence today's announcement so I think firstly we have the board we have three directors joining in due course initially Jimmy Wilson
- for those that don't know Jimmy was head of iron ore at BHP had a long and distinguished career at BHP has a formidable pedigree in mining operations effectively at 2IC I understand of BHP so to him to join the board and in an executive role can really help us around the time of receiving the feasibility study but continue to build our team, continue to have his insights on the development of Havieron but also as we look at other assets the exploration but also looking at other inorganic opportunities to have someone of his calibre to be working on that with us I think is a tremendous opportunity
- then in the deputy chair role commencing on or before the first of January we have Elizabeth Gaines, again look huge profile and presence, I think globally certainly in Australia seen as one of the top executives not just in mining but you know a top executive just finishing up as the MD and CEO of Fortescue, 50 billion dollar top 10 ASX listed company, just a huge amount of development and growth under Elizabeth’s stewardess stewardship… she's you know has this background in private equity background as a CFO incredible strategic thought and operational experience again so she brings her own incredible experience and expertise to the table
- and then also joining from the first of from the first of January if not before is Mark Barnaba, Mark is deputy chairman of Fortescue again 50 billion dollar enterprise in addition he was previously head of global investment banking resources for Macquarie bank and it presently sits on the reserve bank of Australia, your Bank of England… so again his pedigree his commercial insights his strategic insights as well are going to be invaluable
- and all of them bring you know tremendous skills, different skills but also overlapping and really complete that board in I think one of the best boards literally in Australia so and the thought process here is if we surround ourselves with A grade talent we increase the probability of great outcomes
- I think the second piece I’ll speak to just now is the debt, so a 220 aussie million commitment letter with three you know main street tier one banks HSBC, ASZ and INZ all you know very prominent names in resource funding, so with those coming in seven year facility, very competitive interest rate three and a half percent plus benchmark
- just to put that in context we will when first drawn will repay the Newcrest debt which is eight percent plus benchmark so you can see straight away a massive arbitrage of saving there but the real key here is it's 220 million dollars
- so that provides a huge step towards fully funding Havieron and it gives us a tremendous amount of flexibility over a seven year duration debt piece with repayments not until after project completion plus 12 months after that so it's an extraordinary high quality and flexible debt piece at good pricing with your our preferred partners
- and well I’d really just like to again acknowledge that HSBC, ASZ and INZ are joining, we selected them from a process and we feel very strongly about these being enduring long-lasting banking relationships
- and there's a lot to unpack because there's a there's a third element today's announcement as well which is bringing on a strategic equity investor in Wyloo, look we couldn't have a better partner than than Wyloo we're just delighted to have them on board and what they bring with an initial I mean 9.6% stake they've come in basically at market price at a very small premiumum to the last five days but at the same price as that last placement ordinarily you would see placements done at a discount
- so for us to be able to bring them in at this pricing just talks to the conviction they have around the asset and the team and we're really thankful for them being prepared to come in at that pricing and then again they've also… you've got two tranches so our first 60 million dollar aussie investment and then another 60 million but it's 35 million pounds of options which is at a 22% premium
- at around 10 pence that would give them a total investment of around 120 million aussie, so a really big strategic stake initially 9.6% stake that can rise to about as much as 14 and a half percent stake but they become this strategic shareholder and really someone who allows us to work overtime to fully unlock the value of Havieron
- so you know this trifecta of having you know this tremendous augmentation of our board recognizing the great job that the existing directors have done coupled with the debt piece and I understand the magic of leverage when delivering shareholder returns and then that third piece being Wyloo, absolute investor of choice as a strategic partner so really delighted Donald and delighted for our shareholders to deliver this outcome today.
* Okay so thank you for that Shaun, Bamps said on the boards this morning that he's never come across an AIM listed business with the capacity to raise almost 200 million of funding before the full feasibility study like this so you've already summarised the debt and equity funding package which was what I was going to ask you for but you've done it and it gives us the background to have you managed to pull it all together so quickly, tell us the drama because this has been done in no time at all?
- in effect I think you know what I’ve talked about you know on you know on these kind of webinars with yourself the lsa Donald but also I think across a range of platforms is I’ve talked about you know people should have confidence that we're preparing and you know it's in some ways it's kind of you to say this has all been put together in no time but the truth is this has been a tremendous journey and really now shareholders are seeing the culmination of that journey so in terms of the elements look I’ve talked about a transition period and transition issues that had to be overcome around the pre-feasibility study around the option and achieving an outcome with that option and being fully funded
- and I talked about trying to give myself around 18 months to solve that and I feel today we've switched from defence to offense and so if I look at those three parts yeah I think I first you know went to a head-hunter when Alex asked me look would you go out, Alex Borreli our present chair and said look at some stage I will be looking at stepping down from that chair role, would you please go out and consider who you'd like to bring in and I sat down with a head hunter and you know number one on my list was Mark Barnaba
- I’d worked with Mark Barnaba before on transactions and you know just had a huge amount of respect for the way he goes about and about transactions and the way he carries himself and I think we always got on well through that process so I thought I’d start at the top of my list and I reached out to Mark and really that's been virtually a 12-month process but with that we've also been able to kind of bring in Elizabeth and Jimmy and thought about what skill sets do we want on this board to really….
* Did Mark Barnaba recommend Elizabeth as a suitable person?
- yeah absolutely look I knew Elizabeth a little bit but you know Mark knows her well, very well you know that they they've shared a lot of the Fortescue or journey together so you know being able to kind of have Mark as to kind of bring to harness that group together again with Jimmy we sat down and wanted to think about who would be just an audacious outcome to bring in with an operational background and you know again bringing in Jimmy Wilson who you know played such a prevalent role in the world's largest mining company at BHP I think is extraordinary, particularly for him to be you know coming in a part-time executive role
- I think that's an extraordinary and again I think that is a demonstration of the commitment that team has to have to Havieron and Greatland
- and then you know we talked about the debt piece you know I think again I’ve been pretty open with shareholders that we started that at the beginning of this company year so again that has been an eight nine month process but we needed to know what percentage of the asset we own to fund it, although we I think when we thought about this we always said well let's fund the 30% it will be always easy to go back to the bank and say no we want to borrow a little bit more
- we had a mechanism in there that could adjust either way, as it happens we didn't need that mechanism we got the best possible outcome from that option, we keep the full 30 so you know that's been a kind of a nine month journey and I think I started talking to Wyloo gosh….
* How many banks were prepared to offer you term sheets, I mean did you actually do a beauty contest of the world's banks get your pick of the banks?
- yeah we started with over a dozen banks and we slowly went through and I think I mentioned around our selection of ANZ ING and HSBC, it really was about the banks that we felt from a relationship point of view and from a long-term commitment without going into each of the banks you know it too deeply I think ANZ has been part of every funding I’ve done since about 2004. so my relationship with them is bordering on 20 years a number of those banks were well and still are kind of northern star funding banks so again yeah you know it's continuity of those relationships and preservation of those relationships and then bring those relationships across for long-term creation of values and partnerships here at Greatland
- so you know again it was about spending nine months of preparation to be able to move quickly when the opportunity arose
- and then with Wyloo look I think success breeds success, we had that really good experience of going out to the market for equity in august, we had Tribeca come in as a cornerstone shareholder
- I was then able to articulate to Wyloo around the debt piece coming to its conclusion around the directors we are bringing in and the quality of those directors and this has been synchronizing you know these three elements has been a little bit like being the conductor of a symphony
- it's been trying to bring those pieces together and collectively helping each part make the other part more likely or better to happen and I think that's what we've achieved with today's announcement
* Okay it might be worth expanding on the fact that you actually needed that 60 million aussie dollars of equity, that you needed the equity stake in order to be able to fully draw down on the larger 220 aussie dollar debt facility, do you want to unwrap that for us?
- yeah we'll look at again this is something shareholders you know should know I’ve been warming them to you know really again for the last 12 months
- you know no project is banked a hundred percent debt there's always some equity needs to sit aside and everyone who's you know taken a mortgage out on a home or probably bought a car knows that the banks sit there and don't want to lend 100% of that asset value
- they want some equity sitting next to them so and this this level of financing has exactly the same principles so and what this allowed us to do is with this final piece of equity is to be fully funded and not… you know we are fully funded clearly on the PFS but also create a funding environment where we are confident that when the feasibility study releases that we have the head room to accommodate that as well
- now time will tell but you know we really feel we're in a very strong position vis-a-vis that USD 98 million dollars of capex on the feasibility… on the pre-feasibility study to feel confident that we have the kind of funding platform across debt and equity to be fully funded across a range of scenarios.
* Okay Chris K asks will you be paying the USD 50 million dollars Newcrest loan back as soon as you get the funds, what's the timing on that?
- so yes is the answer to that Chris, so as one of the first elements of the drawdown would be to repay that that USD 50 million dollar Newcrest loan facility
- as I said there's this lovely arbitrage where that's costing us eight percent this is costing us three and a half percent so you know we kind of love the cost saving around that, there's no hurry to do that we will have to go through the drawdown mechanism a documenting you know a debt facility is you know is a month or two work
- we have the commitment letter we need to complete that process but you know that will be and is envisaged to be you know under the uses of funds, that is exactly one of the first steps that we'll be taking.
* So we can expect that to be a couple of months to see?
- yeah I think that's a good rule of thumb.
* Okay now Wyloo, you mentioned they’re not so well known across here in the UK, clearly very well known in Australia, Nick T asks can you please let us know what you know about billionaire Andrew Forrest apart from the fact that he's a billionaire clearly and his private company Wyloo Metals and I would say my part of it would be why Wyloo?
- well just briefly you know I don't purport to you know have any particularly deep knowledge of Andrew but you know Wyloo I understand is the family station and so that's the genesis of that name as I understand it but the so yeah… it's lovely to have that that kind of tradition.
* Why them though why Wyloo what do they bring that others wouldn't have?
- well I think while Wyloo metals has just this tremendous reputation around being a patient you know deep funding support and I think what they try to do as I understand it is back the next generation of high quality developments and I think that's exactly what Havieron is
- so we feel it's just a tailor-made partnership, it gives us this strategic investor which helps us gives us time to unlock that full value in Havieron and I think in terms of Wyloo we've got this lovely connectivity not just in terms of my engagement with Wyloo but also the connectivity through Mark and Elizabeth coming from Fortescue which overlaps with Andrew himself
- so it's this this lovely confluence of factors that gives us a strong basis of relationship but just a funder and a partner of choice and I and I think that the record of Wyloo demonstrates their you know their willingness to commit to generate value over time
- I also know Luca quite well the head of Wyloo, I've worked with him previously on transactions so again it's these multi-factorial features of relationship that really bring together finding the right fit as your strategic partner.
* But they most interestingly didn't just mention Havieron they mentioned your other projects in the Paterson, so do they have a genuine interest in exploring and developing those with you?
- yeah look again you know one of the lovely things about this funding package is having enough funds to also pursue the exploration strategy
- so I love to orientate people around our three the three pillars of our strategy, deliver and expand at Havieron, continue to invest in the drill bit and unlock exploration value in the portfolio and position ourselves for inorganic growth
- so in terms of that second feature being the… well let's start so Havieron I think without saying is the cornerstone asset and something that yeah is clearly an asset that's incredibly attractive as the next you know tier of world-class assets in Australia.
* Okay other people about other people…
- sorry about them, just gonna say but while we specifically mentioned and a big feature of our discussions with them has been the geology and unlocking the geology around Havieron across that Paterson footprint we also love Ernest Giles as well remember but you know I think if we can have a discovery there it doesn't need to be the size of Havieron, if it is that's out of the out of the ballpark but even a half Havieron, a quarter Havieron still creates so much value next to this infrastructure and I think this helps us accelerate that.
* Okay let me just quickly ask you about some of the shenanigans that are bringing on which you've taken to the us to this point do you have any thoughts as to why Sandeep and Newcrest didn't opt to pay for the five percent stake, why didn't why didn't they buy the five percent stake which you clearly think is worth far more than 60 million dollars?
- yeah look that's a better question for Newcrest….
* You must have some kind of take on it though I mean around that around your board table you must have discussed this?
- yeah well look I think the narrative for me is this was the best outcome for Greatland shareholders you know it increased our fundamental value from a medium to long term by around 20%, that's extraordinary we love the asset, you know why Newcrest may have thought you know there was an opportunity to you know not to excise the option at that time is a bit of a curveball but look as Napoleon said when yeah never interrupt someone when they're making a mistake so we were delighted to hold on to the to a full 30% of Havieron.
* Okay you get today's Gold star for that one that was brilliant… I let there's a question is flooding in from all over to what extent does the debt and equity package de-risked Greatland secured the future I mean this is pretty fundamental I think?
- well and look you know what I haven't mentioned but that should have is the Wyloo investment is subject to shareholder approval but that is incredibly important because the equity unlocks the debt and that's why this is a full de-risking event because it gives us both the debt and the equity to feel we're fully funded
- we know we're fully funded on the PFS there's still some moving parts in that feasibility study but we're actually you know we have a really important liquidity buffer there and that liquidity buffer you know services a number of aims you know it services any upgrade in the cost to put Havieron into development and remember we want there to be an upgrade
- it's going from 2 million to 3 million tons per annum that's what the PFS tells you is the intent and we want that to be the outcome
- two I talked about ongoing exploration
- and three we want insulation from any inflationary pressures so we've intentionally make no apologies for going out and we haven't just funded to the dollar we need
- we've actually put in an appropriate liquidity buffer and right through the life of Havieron we want to be not the junior partner saying let's slow down expenditure we want to be accelerating it
- we want to be saying look how do we… can we bring in more drill rigs can we unlock more value because it's Greatland shareholders that are more leveraged to the success of Havieron than you get by sitting in the broader Newcrest portfolio as a shareholder
- so from our point of view we are will do everything we can to accelerate the development of Havieron and that means having the funding to keep up with Newcrest.
* So Nick Taylor asks it's a simple question easily answer briefly where and when does that a shareholder vote take place?
- the UK shareholder meetings are around about three weeks, I think 14 days of notice so I’d be saying kind of early October but let us get out that notice and meeting we're kind of finished this job on onto the notice of meeting tomorrow
* Okay work that's work in progress fair point no you've done a heck of a lot in what I think seems to be a fairly short time, Aziz K asks the RNS states that feasibility study targets and expansion to around three million MTPA during the December 2022 quarter, please expand on this statement, so your next feasibility study the next phase tell us…?
- yeah so look this comes back to that original PFS said it was centred around a two million ton per annum production profile
- the PFS went on to say that it would recommended a three million tonne per annum so 50% bigger production profile be taken to the feasibility study, that remains the intent so again you know a 50% expansion we should be celebrating and that's our expectation
- and Donald if I digress for a moment about you know this happened again it's all about saying you know people should have confidence that we plan for this we plan that we knew that we'd need debt we knew that we need equity, we knew that we needed the best team we could find and although it's all kind of come together I’ve been trying to work up all these multiple streams but needed to understand our position in the joint venture to finally take these things through to execution
- and you know that what was afforded to me on the I think it was the 21st of August when we got that outcome with the option so we are ready to go because we did a huge amount of preparation for this.
* At that time, I thought you were incredibly confident incredibly happy that you've once again had about 30% share stake in Havieron and I was thinking but doesn't this come with an enormous headache of having to repay that loan very quickly, I mean if you could tell us how soon that loan was due to be repaid and it put you, I thought it put you under enormous pressure but you knew things that we didn't?
- well and I had guided that that people should have confidence that we had had had you know had prepared for these….
* Managing directors have to see that though but we don't necessarily believe them all the time
- no you should have confidence Donald that but thank you.
* okay to less happy news, dilution share dilution, now not everyone is happy that that people have been granted options at 45% that's above the placement 45% above the placement price of 8.2 pence, I personally bought my shares at an average around 20p so if you do the maths I do hope that I do hope they drive the share price well above 12 pence, what do you say to that?
- look let me answer this in two parts look you know Greatland you know had about four billion shares on issue and when I joined I think we had about four million dollars in the bank and an outstanding funding horizon which was unknown and unfunded
- the so that we have issued some equity over the a series of equity raisings and then bought in some incentive plans but really if you contrast the position that we're in today I think from an Australian dollar we've raised around 400 million dollars in about the last three weeks
- now that is a sea change a transformational event in terms of being able to articulate that we're now funded and we've done it for less than 20% dilution
- so I think when you compare from where we started, this outcome is incredibly good value for money if I talk to the to the equity plan for the incoming directors, look again I think you know if you look at it in terms of the percentage that they're participating in the company it's I don't think it's unreasonable but more importantly more importantly these people do not participate in the value creation today, they don't participate until we've increased the value of about 56 or 46 percent
- well that is a big number and I appreciate that people have come in at different levels over the journey but fundamentally we have to deal with the share price that that that it is today
- and for them not you know it has to go up 46% for them to break even, they don't make a penny on that they then get a lick of the ice cream so to speak for value beyond that
- now I’m just delighted to have that level of alignment because that is alignment focused on one relentless objective which is to create shareholder value to increase the share price and I’m a shareholder as well both through investing and through the staff participation plan and what do I think will increase the value of my stock
- A grade talent, A grade talents make the most of the opportunities that we have so look I think to get people of this calibre who frankly I don't think would have joined the board had we not said we are willing to do something a bit different we want to incentivise you
- now I know them and that opened the door but also I wanted to say look the proposition I’m putting to you is actually I don't want you to sit there on my board and you know as important as all those roles are in terms of you know reviewing disclosures and that I actually want you to be incentivised to be creating value
- I want you to be using your rolodexes to help us access capital and opportunities and already you know this Wyloo investment at least in part is a reflection of that board
- so I think already that that has been a tremendously good investment for Greatland
* It's already been good value you think?
- very much so and it might be worth paying we did not pay any fees on the Wyloo investment we didn't pay any fees on the bank debt which we self-arranged, that in itself you know has saved the company you know a huge amount that stays in our treasury
* It's very clever and are do you have the skills and clearly you have the skills to have done that
- yeah look it's part of my background you know I look at northern star you know and previous roles at sakari and straits you know I've been having you know a banking background a strategy background and an M&A background and those things have really helped me and we've built a tremendous team because none of these things are done in isolation
- having mining engineers that can go in and explain the proposition, having geologists who can go out there and describe the ore body whether that be to the market to another geologist or to a potential investor
- having a CFO and a finance team that can execute these having a health and safety manager who is absolutely top draw and has created us systems and environment where we can bring home our people safe each day
- it's all of these pieces in the puzzle that make for a good team and that I think people heard me say at the end of calendar year 2021
- my greatest achievement was building that team and that's what's given us the platform to be successful at driving these outcomes in 2022.
* Okay another dilution question from Craig M, he says g'day Shaun so I suspect he's from your part of the world thanks for all the team's hard work getting to this stage my question is do you see any more dilution for shareholders before we reach production at Havieron?
- well that's the beauty of this you know I’ve got to be a little bit measured about saying we're fully funded because until we've all got a copy of the feasibility study, I have to be a little bit cautious in that language but I do think we have a tremendous liquidity buffer that gives me confidence thinking that there's a pathway to that
- but on the basis we're fully funded and we're ballpark kind of 18 months away from first production, this is what this combination of debt and equity is designed to do is to say no
- that is sufficient you know, no more dilution this is sufficient funding to take us through to production and that is our intent.
* Okay one for me here might you expect the share price to perform better now this now that this massive uncertainty this this overhang has been removed?
- well absolutely and again you know to take it back to a narrative I’ve been kind of consistent with over the last 18 months it's all been joining and saying gosh yeah I’ve joined and there are some transitional issues that need to be you know addressed you know from that PFS through to the option through the uncertainty of what we what percentage of the asset we own not being funded all of these issues had to be addressed to attract high calibre institutional investments and investors
- and that's what we've really done I think it's been a very systematic process it's been about hard work about you know doing the work to be able to take it to arbitration and getting an outcome that that we felt was fair
- it was about having the preparation with the banks it was about being able to present ourselves to potential institutional investors in a really polished manner and I think by doing all of that we've set ourselves up for success so I think we now have a very stable platform and when you remove risk because investors you know at least in theory think about investment in terms of risk and return so the lower your risk you know the more confident people should have in achieving the return which should drive up our share price on a given expectation of cash flow.
* Okay I’m gonna slightly take you to a different place and to look ahead at your other exploration projects two people Chris W and Eddie D ask the same question, when are we expecting news for the drill campaign on our other licenses?
- so look at the drill right now is on the up in the Paterson on the scallywag and juri
- look assay times certainly recently have been coming down hopefully that trend continues because I think for at least 18 months in Australia it's been incredibly long queues but if it yes I’d like to see that what we did just to remind people as we ran the RC rig that was really doing the pre-collars through that Permian layer
- now we've got the diamond rig up there and we’re punching through to get core so there's a cycle time of cutting and assaying but you know we tend to try to get those that information out as soon as it comes to hand
- I don't have a formal time frame on that but rigs are spinning as we speak so that cycle time is about to kick in again okay
- and so I’ll just add you know we have one rig spinning this calendar year I’d like to think next year you know perhaps we have two rigs spinning just given the funding proposition and three if we can get on to Ernst Giles, so I think that all increases the cycle time for unlocking that option value which again is one of the reasons why I think taking that little bit of extra equity and funding is a terrific outcome for us
* So two and possibly three drill rigs next year?
- well look that's the ambition it's all it's all kind of premised on access issues really that you do need to get not just owning the tenements but you do need to clear areas with the traditional owners before you can clear drill pads
- so there's a process that we work through and sometimes the timing and you've got to kind of work up the you know the moment of that the balance and then you it's easier to maintain so what it now positions us ourselves is to ramp that up
- we're really respectful we love we enjoy and really embrace that relationship and in fact you know the CEO of jay yak you know the Martu partner there sent me a really you know congratulatory text today about the announcement, so that relationship is wonderful but it's based on mutual respect which means you know we'd love to get on there and drill but we also recognize that that you know they're the traditional owners and indeed the owners of that land up there and so yes that's our aspiration, but we do have to respect how we ramp that up and do it in partnership.
* Okay you're working with your stakeholders that makes a lot of sense, now Chris D asks will there be an updated road map in terms of a road map too it means one of these lovely clear presentations that you were saying were pivotal to you getting your getting your core funding away?
- yeah I think if you're talking about a PowerPoint yes updated PowerPoint would be a very boring way of putting it but yeah roadmap was much more eloquent but the that look we I literally yeah was finalizing you know the some of these issues over the weekend so at some point you know we haven't cracked into the to you know putting this into a PowerPoint presentation style but we will be doing that
- we'd like to have that ready for next week so yes is the answer and I think you know we've got some really interesting slides we can bring in but that's worth doing well so we'll we're I know the guys are already working on that as we speak in the background, there are some drafts zipping around.
* Okay now we've really got a rush of a rush of questions coming in so literally hot off the presses I’m gonna start just asking you randomly John G asks when we start production at Havieron and have cash coming in will you start buying shares back at some point to get the share number down?
- yeah look I think yeah that's a an interesting I’m a you know I’m a dividend kind of guy perhaps a shared buyback achieves a similar outcome, so it's certainly something that….
* Do we have a preference between the two?
- well as I said I’m a dividend kind of guy but that does come from being in Australia where there is a franking credit tax benefit, you basically get the company passes on the tax that's paid to shareholders
- I don't think you have an imputation franking system in the UK so perhaps a buyback might be more sensible in that jurisdiction but historically as I said in Australia I’ve been a dividend kind of guy but the concept of returning value to shareholders I think is a very sensible one
- and equity has a cost just like paying interest on a loan so I think that discipline of paying either a dividend or using some funds to buy back shares is a really important dividend… to have discipline to have in a cash flow generating business.
* Okay Simon M asks any news in our Tasmanian licenses, so I've been all the way around Australia we're now going to pop across to Tasmania…
- yeah look I look again I think I’ve been kind of open with them where we've kind of been talking with some people around you know perhaps coming up with a mechanism where someone else takes over those assets but we'd like to keep an interest
- look we continue to have some of those dialogues and you know if we can find the right partner and you know we think we have some good dialogue there we'd probably like to put them in someone else's hands
- really good quality assets but probably not of the size and scale that can compete for exploration dollars compared to some of the other opportunities in the project in the portfolio particularly up in the Paterson.
* Okay so Dip S asks have you been any strong progress in regard to inorganic or organic growth opportunities or perhaps partnerships or divestment opportunities with the existing portfolio?
- yeah look we do we have we do we you know we look at a number of these opportunities
- we're incredibly financially disciplined we have this fantastic privilege of having something the quality of Havieron in the portfolio but yeah look we are active in that area but again yeah I yeah again I try to be consistent in my narrative I’ve always talked about getting through these transitional issues
- it was actually quite hard for us to merge with another company and then put the burden of funding onto that other asset
- we really had to get our own house fully funded in order for us to be in a position to work effectively with other similar size or indeed smaller entities so I think again now that we've done that it lets us take some of the good ideas we've got some of the relationships we've built and look to see if we can execute them
- just like we've executed with the directors coming in with the banks and with Wyloo now we have an opportunity to look at that aspect of the relationships with bill.
* Now that I’m scanning through these different questions I’m saying that people are asking was there a is it a connection between Wyloo and the various people who are coming in and I’ve heard you say yes but it's almost worth reiterating the fact that there is a you know a broad connection between all these folks who are not just working in the mining industry but have been working with each other which is of great interest to shareholders?
- well there's not not a connection so yeah I think again it's a little bit what I talked about being you know trying to bring all the notes of the symphony in together I think each was a virtuous feedback loop in terms of bringing in the other
- perhaps they're different threads that I picked up and you know we've weaved them together but as I say they're not not connected.
* Okay not connected okay Phillip C asks an interesting one he's broadly talking about a potential ASX listing and firstly many thanks for all your efforts on behalf of shareholders impressive hard work that's good you're getting a double tick on your report card here please could you explain more about the potential ASX listing how does this work does it cause further dilution does it raise funds how does it affect the share movement daily, in other words what are the benefits do it do a cost-benefit analysis on it for us?
- yeah well you know firstly thank you for the introduction that question really appreciated and on behalf of the whole team here the in terms of the ASX look I think that's an important augmentation to our listing platform
- you've seen with Tribeca coming in you've seen with Wyloo what I think we've done is matured the platform where institutional investors are really interested in Greatland which was not the case you know two years ago and again I think when I started I talked about that engagement with institutional investors and trying to keep the best of both worlds you know we want to maintain this fantastic interactive retail base we want to continue to or grow that and mature it and the best of both worlds is then bringing in that that institutional buying as well and of course acting together that's the best possible outcome you know
- the more demand the better the more liquidity the better and so when I think about the ASX look we've now had a cornerstone with Tribeca coming from Australia today we've got the Wyloo coming in as a strategic holder so that that Australian connectivity is important
- now I think I’ve talked before about having that ASX listing increases the man the number of funds that have a mandate to be able to invest in Greatland even having an intention to invest within 12 months brought us into some more of those mandates I think that's really useful in terms of where does the shares trade well they'll still trade in London
- what you typically see even with a cross listed is the shares trade on the deeper market and the more liquid market which of the course is London and that's good and we should celebrate that but I think if we can bring some buyers in just because they're aussie invested doesn't mean they still can't execute their order in London
- and you've seen I think I used an example previously Kirkland lake where it was just a compliance listing in Australia but allowed mandate locked funds in Australia to buy Kirkland Lake in this case on the TSX…
* So you know I’ve got a very firm idea… eye on institutional investors?
- correct and that and that it increases our appeal and you know it increases our access to funding which I think is important.
* Great okay very good answer Kieran D asks a good question what if any future hurdles do you see Greatland having to overcome in the next two years?
- I’ll look at you know no progress is linear so yeah we'll continue to have challenges
- I do feel in terms of transitional issues you know that's the end of that part of my narrative which we should celebrate
- I certainly am the but I think now as we move forward but we've got the feasibility study we've got we want to get into production we want to be successful at that and then we want to get into free cash flow generation I think when we're at free cash flow generation that is a huge step in the in the growth of a company and when I think about value creation at Greatland I think of it particularly in a three-year journey
- I think about the next 18 months getting to the start of production and the generation of free cash flow I think about 18 months after that and then being ramped up to three four hundred thousand ounces a year 100% basis at Havieron I think that's another huge de-risking event and demonstrating the potential of Havieron and I’d like to think in that same three-year horizon we have a pre-feasibility study on that eastern breccia bulk mining proposition
- and I think if we can do that we've really unlocked a lot of value within the platform so I’d like to think the issues that we have although will no doubt have complexities and setbacks and nothing is linear I think they're good problems they're the problems about unlocking value into generating free cash flow and then demonstrating exactly how big that free cash flow can be.
* Okay we have a question from paddy gal who says hi Shaun Sprott have issued a new note today where they say the new team opens the door to an exciting new growth phase, I certainly do, M&A as the buyer not the seller… okay is M&A with you as the buyer not the seller something you'd be actively pursuing over the coming months?
- thanks Paddy and yeah that was another very good piece by sprout that research so the yeah look I think again I talk about the benefit of being fully funded and having a strategic holder
- it allows us to maybe broaden our horizons as well and when I say inorganic growth I’m talking about kind of potential M&A opportunities
- it's always been one of our pillars but again I think having stabilised the platform or indeed having to really made it a very strong platform I think it now gives us the platform to expand upon be with M&A or other similar type activity
- so look we're excited about that it, you know there's lots of avenues we can pursue and again having a strategic holder with substantial access to funding you know you asked about why Donald they are a preferred strategic holder
- you know they're an incredibly well-funded organization that wants to see growth now having that as your ally on that journey is incredibly advantageous particularly when combined with A grade talent in the organization and on the board.
* This is a I’m afraid slightly random question it's just that I’ve got a… I looked at benchmark and you talk about Newcrest were charging you eight percent over benchmark you're taking that down to three and a half percent over benchmark, we don't know what aussie benchmark is though so I just wanted to ask you that?
- yeah a lot of people have probably heard of libor in Australia, in Australia it's the BBSR or the bank bill swap rate so it's the same concept but just the benchmark in AUD.
* What is it though at what level what rate?
- look at it it's probably notched up a little bit
- approximately I’m gonna say two percent.
* Okay so it's so essentially the cost of borrowing is five and a half percent?
- yeah yeah all in yeah all in.
* Anyway no I just I just thought on behalf of the shareholders it's exactly that kind of level of detail that they want to they want to know, okay fantastic I’m just gonna go grab my screen again..
- no and random questions are good they're good It's a good fun format.
* Oh good okay I’m afraid the last half has been a little bit random but that's life it's not as those are not good questions but they're less coherent I personally love coherence but random is random is interesting and anyway at the end of the day you want to hear what the shareholders think and it's the second Wyloo option it's warrants it's a it's a different form of equity, why warrants and do you think that do you think people ever actually use a that they will actually take you up on those warrants and Tony S is asking you about to say you know he he's… a similar question right why warrants?
- look so it you know it was all part of a bit of a discussion about the basis that they were comfortable to invest in and the basis that Greatland you know was encouraging the while to invested
- look we so like all negotiations it you know it was a healthy discussion and we had various different structures that that were discussed
- I think the balance for me is the 60 million dollars came in… I look at an exceptional pricing to come in you know at all you know a fraction above the share price it is extraordinary
- yeah I can't think of another example where someone's coming in a placement without a discount so I think that is exceptional
- so we are grateful yeah and proud that we got Wyloo to come in on that basis yeah but also you know we really felt that they were coming in at a point where we're doing this wonderful appointments on the board we were solving the debt puzzle I felt it was a really good time for a new investor to come in, I think at a great point in the cycle and you know the great thing about options or warrants is you know fundamentally it's an agreement to come in at a higher share price so I saw that as almost creating a premium entry point for us shareholders
- if they don't come in it's no dilution, if they do come in at that higher price well we've got a really significant premium on the existing share price and it's a better way for someone to come in than them to have bought in at the share price that it was you know yesterday.
* So yeah Tony S asks second… second question from Tony do you need them to activate the warrants to be fully funded?
- no and look that is the sizing of the warrant tranches you know that the $60m was the number we wanted and needed to be able to come and say to shareholders we have conviction that that that this is fully funded
- we achieved that we specifically worked with them to agree that number and again you know great reflection of the relationship, great reflection of the quality of Wyloo that they worked with us to deliver that number.
* Okay Patrick Mitchell says when's your next visit to London when you're gonna come and meet shareholders in London again?
- booking flights as we speak
- would have liked to have pre-positioned myself in London for this announcement as I did with the last one but literally the weekend was essential to concluding all of this and really appreciative to a number of the counterparties that also were prepared to work through the weekend to help us solve all this so thank you to each of them
- I so look I think maybe not next week but I’m hoping to get up there for a few day for the following week and I’d have to look at what that date is but that that is the plan and if so Donald we might talk to you about organizing a shareholder town hall if we think that's something that people would have, we would have traction with people.
* We would be very delighted and I suspect the answer is an overwhelming yes.
- I the… enjoy the interaction.
* They enjoy the interaction with you it's mutual.
- yeah excellent.
* Well I’ve never seen happier shareholders they were.. they love meeting you.
- well this will be good we'll have a little bit more to discuss which is always good fun.
* Certainly true Philip J says when do you think that Newcrest will announce that they're actually going to mine Havieron?
- Phil well you know there's a sequence, the first step is the feasibility study and then typically you'd see that final investment decision on the back of that feasibility study
- the feasibility study is confirmed for the December quarter of this year.
* So can you give us any indication of when in the December quarter?
- I don't expect it to be early… just early in the quarter so let's rule out September (means October)
- I think everyone wants to avoid December so through process of elimination I feel November but that is not guidance that is my sense for it
- but yeah it's the December quarter is the official narrative.
* Okay now we've come we've come to five o'clock and we've had our hour but we still got some just a few questions is squeezed through, Trevor C asks have JP Morgan close the hated short I added the word hated and I have to confess have you have JP Morgan closed the short and somebody else asked about shorts and say is our shorting has that come to an end because we're fully funded now?
- Well firstly we didn't seek to issue any equity disorders through the placement which I think is important…
* You know sends the right message I’m sure.
- yeah secondly the look… as a head scratcher for me I thought the short would come off at the end of the option process, it didn't and but I you know I’m not privy to the way they think about that if they haven't I think they'll be very disappointed if their view was there was a long-term funding gap
- hopefully we've disproved that narrative but the great thing about shorts is once they're on they've got to be unwound
- so that is a huge amount of buying that has to come back into the market, so I hope they haven't taken off I hope I hope that benefit to us is yet to come but we'll say I think in the UK you've got three days to notify your short positions and when I last looked it was still on.
* It's that time, it's the witching hour we have got to the end of our hour and a bit beyond and we're out of questions can you believe that we're actually out of questions for you Shaun I think you've been absolutely tremendous. Thank you it was 11 o'clock when we started this I suspect it's midnight now so on behalf of all the shareholders who've at very short notice gathered themselves to come and ask you questions and hear what you had to say I’d like to say a huge thank you, I’d like to say a huge thank you to them and thank you to a London southeast for having got our act together between Friday Saturday Sunday and now to deliver this this event for you and on your behalf anyway, thank you so much and have a good evening you and have a good evening to all the shareholders, thank you so much.
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